Curse

Divinus Stella · Nov 14, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

Mesmer: inept - 15 sec recharge was fitting - nobody was complaining that its too powerful

Actually a lot of people were, but its actually clumsiness that needed the 20 second recharge.

Racthoh · Nov 14, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

Mesmer: inept - 15 sec recharge was fitting - nobody was complaining that its too powerful

People were, that and Clumsiness.

bungusmaximus · Nov 14, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by B/P_Ranger

I know this, and I am not a lunatic. I quit playing Diablo 2 because of skill nerfs and lack of player support. You think that this or any other game is any different. Keep nerfing skills, don't listen to the players, and I am one of those who will move on.

Doesn't make me a lunatic.

Those who cheer every move anet makes whether its good for the game or not are sheep.

In GW, skill nerf = player support. Believe it or not, PvP would utterly suck if nerfs and buffs weren't implemented every now and then. These current changes are a pretty good example that aNet DOES listen to players, provided those players know what they are talking about of course. Can't go game balancing around players who are baed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

People were, that and Clumsiness.

Could be me, But I would have nerfed clumsiness instead of ineptitude tbh. The recharge on clumsiness is still insane.

Antheus · Nov 14, 2007, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by B/P_Ranger

I know this, and I am not a lunatic. I quit playing Diablo 2 because of skill nerfs and lack of player support. You think that this or any other game is any different. Keep nerfing skills, don't listen to the players, and I am one of those who will move on.

Doesn't make me a lunatic.

Those who cheer every move anet makes whether its good for the game or not are sheep.

The numbers come from grind.

It wasn't until grind titles were added that player numbers went up. PvE = grind. The more, the better.

While GW was designed with different concept in mind, that has changed. The main attraction for masses is maxing out the titles. The main attraction of Diablo was item farming.

Who is upset over bp nerf? Tombs farmers. Nobody has mentioned Urgoz, for example. And tombs, of all places, which has poor loot, is very easily done with any build (this isn't 2005 anymore, hundreds of new skills were added), most of which are faster than bp.

As long as there is grind, players will flock to GW. And that's the bottom line. Just look at crying over loot scaling. Hard-core farmers ragequit, there was no impact on the rest.

I wonder what will happen once Ursan gets nerfed.

Abedeus · Nov 14, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

Monk
Word of Healing: decreased unconditional heal amount to 5..130.
===============
first they buff it...then they nerf it -.- lol

Miscellaneous
Changed the elite skill used by the henchman Mhenlo in Eye of the North to Word of Healing.

lol, clear, where you made now the successful deathnerf of LoD Monks, couldn't you just remove only the annoying 80% limit and let the heal ammount in peace ? , imo LoD isnt worth it anymore to be called an Elite ..
tooo long cast time, when used alone, and theoverall heal is crap, there the player can just use the normal group heal skill that heals now through the buff better

WoH - unconditional healing was a bit too big, but it's hardly a nerf.

LoD - it doesn't have 80% limit anymore. It's now a cheaper version of Heal Party.

And moar grammer plx.

Akaraxle · Nov 14, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

GO IZZY GO GO GO!

B/P tombs oh noes that took much skill amirite

Big_Iron · Nov 14, 2007, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

GO IZZY GO GO GO!

B/P tombs oh noes that took much skill amirite

Bzzt! Thanks for playing. The pet nerf will only have a small impact on Tombs. There are plenty of other exploitable corpses. That said, I've calmed down since my rantings of last night (which Inde rightly deleted), but I still think this is one of the all time biggest screw-ups they've done.

Spike · Nov 14, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

To anyone saying "Quit QQing. PvE is easy" or "Theres Ursaway" need to realize that even if PvE is easy, or there is alternatives, it doesn't take away from the annoyance of having things changed around on you.

Thats the grievance, and its a legimate grievance, so stop belittle-ing the other players. -.- And that includes some of you mods here.

QFT. Also it is too much to ask for a REASON for these nerfs beside the usual its for pvp balance sake. Because in busness are you not suppose to PLEASE most of the people most of the time not annoy them?

Savio · Nov 14, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Because in busness are you not suppose to PLEASE most of the people most of the time not annoy them?

Not every PvEr cares about the skill update.

DDL · Nov 14, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

In GW, skill nerf = player support. Believe it or not, PvP would utterly suck if nerfs and buffs weren't implemented every now and then. These current changes are a pretty good example that aNet DOES listen to players, provided those players know what they are talking about of course. Can't go game balancing around players who are baed.

Nobody is refuting this, but you do have to appreciate that from the PvE perspective it often looks like a long line of "if it ain't broke, change it for the worse". Essential changes to the overused PvP skill builds propagate over into the PvE realm where the problems were usually not there in the first place.

So at least try to understand WHY people find this sort of thing annoying.

Also, to be perfectly honest, you can't go balancing a game around players who are top-level AWESOME, either: you end up making a game where you need to be twitchy as a ferret and twice as cunning just to get anywhere. And the general incidence of such people in the game buying population is...small. And most of them are playing counterstrike.

"Baed" is an entirely relative concept, to boot: if someone can't do stuff you can, are they bad? Does that make you "average"? Everyone has their own definition of "bad", and the definitions rarely overlap.

Jetdoc · Nov 14, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Interesting update. A big two thumbs up for the change to Soul Reaping, although I'd love to see a few more changes because of it:

1. Remove minions from triggering Soul Reaping. Kind of makes sense since minions don't have souls, just like spirits (at least lore-wise).

2. Revert spirits back to their original health. Now that the SR engine is not spirit dependant, I'm not sure why the nerf to spirit health is still needed.

3. Revert the timer back to the original Soul Reaping. No need for this nerf anymore if the controllable deaths have now been removed from the energy gain.

I personally don't have any problem with pets not leaving exploitable corpses, although it will require a bit more patience and ingenuity in certain areas.

moriz · Nov 14, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

strangely enough, none of these supposed pve catastrophes affect me. nor had any other skill nerfs affected my pve performance.

is it because i'm simply better at pve than every pve'er here? or maybe these "grievances" are not as big as you all make them out to be? who knows.

Yanman.be · Nov 14, 2007, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Moriz, people simply do not want to change...

Bankai · Nov 14, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Strangely enough, everybody is shouting these things:

1) Izzy doesn't care about PvE
-Barrage got buffed and Mhenlo got WoH after people complained about it
2) Necros have never received a buff
-That's because a lot of the skills are already overpowered like hell, and they simply don't need buffs
3) Pet nerf has completely screwed up PvE
-It's PvE. There's corpses every-RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing-where.
4) The sin class is now useless
-The sin class has always been useful, but the SP bar was so good that nobody ever realized what else the sin class could do
5) PvP game balance destroys PvE game balance
-PvE doesn't need game balance. Almost everything is already really easy. The problem is that a lot of people are too dumb to adapt to situations, and still do stuff like running SF versus destroyers.

DDL · Nov 14, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

strangely enough, none of these supposed pve catastrophes affect me. nor had any other skill nerfs affected my pve performance.

is it because i'm simply better at pve than every pve'er here? or maybe these "grievances" are not as big as you all make them out to be? who knows.

"Affect" is a vague term. Something can quite easily irritate somebody without actually hindering them.

For instance, mosquitoes have never hindered the day-to-day performance of my job. However, would I like them to be far more commonplace? No.

The pet thing is an irritation, primarily because it's so...clumsy. It's a truly UGLY way to fix the problem. The problem that, note, wasn't even THERE in PvE.

But yes, if it makes you feel better: you're better at everything than everyone. That doesn't mean nobody has a right to be irritated, though. Skill is not a prerequisite for expressing irritation.

bungusmaximus · Nov 14, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDL

So at least try to understand WHY people find this sort of thing annoying.

Even I find nerfs annoying, cripslash was nerfed in the past, it was one of my favourite arena builds. It was too good nonetheless, so I had to dig it.

I'm not too fond of the splinter weapon nerf either, since I used to exploit the living crap out of it, but with so many builds and skills in a game I honestly don't care when they nerf my builds, I just make another one.

People should also try and understand why people find skill balances good for the game.

Oh and I'm not awesome at GW, I'm moderately good, leave awesomeness to others

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

1. Remove minions from triggering Soul Reaping. Kind of makes sense since minions don't have souls, just like spirits (at least lore-wise).

Minions are in no way abused in PvP, is you would nerf SR from minions there would be screams, not necessary imho.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

2. Revert spirits back to their original health. Now that the SR engine is not spirit dependant, I'm not sure why the nerf to spirit health is still needed.

No, 4 vs 4 was suffering from spirit spam abuse long enough now, spirits are fine.

Necrotic · Nov 14, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

I'm only posting to add my opinion to the collective...just for the record.

The new SR nerf needs to include the removal of the timer, because that would make SR function exactly the way we suggested it the first time.

I know it's difficult for some to understand....but SR IS our energy management. Hey I know....make a new Ranger stance or enchantment that is Expertise based and is the only way for a Ranger to reduce the energy cost of skills, but it only lasts 15 seconds...or how about a warrior that has to bring a seperate skill that allows his adrenaline to build up. Or maybe he only builds adrenaline on every third hit.

As for the comments I keep seeing about not taking a MM into an area where there aren't any corpses....well....last I checked, you still can't change skills in the middle of a mission/explorable zone. Besides there are other things to do with corpses besides summon minions....as someone else has already pointed out.

Akaraxle · Nov 14, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet

Bzzt! Thanks for playing. The pet nerf will only have a small impact on Tombs. There are plenty of other exploitable corpses. That said, I've calmed down since my rantings of last night (which Inde rightly deleted), but I still think this is one of the all time biggest screw-ups they've done.

Yeah, don't worry, I'm sure some guy will soon post on wiki another way to own PvE with the least effort and player skill possible, for everyone to copy and benefit.

Spike · Nov 14, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Not every PvEr cares about the skill update.

Ture but you don't get a thread this long this quickly if most of then DID'NT care about it. Hence why I said what I did.

MagmaRed · Nov 14, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Pets? Don't understand any of it. THe change is confusing, but the QQ is too.

No exploitable corpses? PvP abuse is the only thing I see this coming from. If so, make it a PvP only feature. That can be done easily as they have already done that with pets and DP.

The QQing about Tombs being dead has me laughing. If you needed a corpse from the pets to complete Tombs, you sucked. Pets served 3 purposes in Tombs, now they serve 2.

1) blodyblocking - the Grasps would stop to kill the pets, keeping them away from the team. This will still happen. It also serves to bunch up the Grasps for Barrage. Except for the first group where you have no minions, killing them is not hard, which provides corpses for minions.

2) damage - although insignificant with low Beast Mastery attributes and no attack skills, the pets provide support damage. In fact, I have seen pets kill Dryders that were behind walls and inaccessible to Barrage (minions were not in range). Its minor, but its helpful, and its still there.

3) corpses for minions - this is gone. If you can't kill things without minions, your team won't do well anyway.

I'm one of those people who thought Splinter was cool, but didn't use it myself. The ORIGINAL B/P teams worked without Splinter. Pets still provide 2 things to help a B/P team, and although I don't understand the change to pets, it won't ruin a farm build, just slow it down a little.

Quit crying and learn how to play people.

Horns I never used, but I don't see why it got hit so hard.

Barrage buff is nice, and Magebane is close to what I suggested - I may be trying that more often.

Soul Reaping - sounds like they are finally listening, and getting close to what we want. I think a timer is still in store for us, but it needs to be modified. I'd say SR should only trigger 1 time every second. This way, if you have 10 SR, and your Ele wipes out a group of 4 enemies in 1 second, you get 10 energy, not 40. Curious to see what they do next, as it still needs work.